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Praying for the dead

by Stella T Wed, 30 Nov 11 at 13:13 CET

I need to know whether we can pray for the dead. Catholics do, so is it mentioned in the bible that allows or disallows praying for our dearly departed?

Re: Praying for the dead

by Ogee Wed, 30 Nov 11 at 14:47 CET

We learn from the New Revelation that "Judgment Day" is nothing else but everybody‘s last day on earth. It is the day our soul separates from our body. Several volumes of the New Revelation touch on this subject.
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Our soul will have a human form and have an etheric body, unless it has committed suicide,
Jesus Himself will raise on this Judgment Day whoever "listens to My teaching, believes in Me and acts accordingly", i.e. takes this soul to heaven
If the soul does not enter heaven, it soul will find itself with exactly the same surroundings as the person who died,
The process of guidance for the soul will start in all levels of the spiritual world.

If i may ask Stella, why do Catholics pray for the dead?

Re: Praying for the dead

by cocoy777 Thu, 1 Dec 11 at 9:24 CET

OK, may I add some statements, also based on the New Revelation.

Man, that is, each of us, is of three components: body, mind-soul, heart-spirit. Mind as not the physical brain but that which uses the brain. Mind as the seat of thoughts. Heart-spirit as the seat of emotions/feelings, not the physical heart but making use of the physical heart.

So, again, body, soul and spirit.

Soul and spirit are of spiritual composition. These two don't decompose with the body. They also leave the body when the person physically dies.

So, praying for the dead, by Catholics, mainly means praying for the departed SOUL. Catholics know they do not pray for the decomposing or decomposed body. If we understand that the body has no life once the soul-spirit leaves it, the body returns to dust, then, praying for the dead should mean praying for the departed soul of our loved ones. The soul with its spirit inside it, will be a complete person, without the physical body, which is only like a physical casing.

So, if you believe this Stella, namely: that only the soul with its spirit continues on alive in the beyond, you can pray for the "dead" (that is, the departed soul) with the purpose that with such love you are asking the Father and Lord Jesus to help such soul in its upward progress. Thus, the act of praying for the departed soul is an act of love. Love knows no boundary. Death, physical death, cannot stop Love. Praying for our departed loved ones is a very much appreciated act of love. Our Lord once said that this love-prayer is heard and granted. I also read the love-essence that goes up as we pray will also be allowed to reach the heart of that departed loved one, so that he/she too can feel it, even be helped in case he/she is in difficulty progressing.

See?

That's the right perspective.

The other perspective, and it is also correct, once we understand, is "to pray for the living but spiritually dead".

Remember the occasion when Jesus told His disciples, "Let the [spiritually] dead bury their [physical] dead." The spiritually dead who are physically alive, have to bury their physically dead loved ones.

So, there are two kinds of "dead" or two kinds of death. Spiritual "dead" who may be still physically alive and, the second, the physically dead.

Here, we can apply the Catholic's advice of "praying for the dead" as praying for those who are still physically alive but already dead spiritually! And when can we say a person is spiritually dead? When he is dead in love, that is, he has no more love, does not love, and is full of attitudes and traits which are not love, hence, sinful. This man, is full of hate, cruelty, as well as full of wrath and anger, hence, also dead in joy, hence, no "life" even though still physically alive, hence, dead. When you have no joy, you are dead, and when yuo have no love, you can be described as already dead although still physically alive. So, at least two things serve as signs of a spiritually dead person: the absence of love and joy.

See a person who has no love? He is dead. See a person who has lost his joy? He is dead.

(There may be other signs of a spiritually dead person.)

Now, if we have such understanding, we can positively apply the Catholic's exhortation to "pray for the dead."

Otherwise, it has no meaning.

Fortunately, here in the Philippines, which is thickly Catholic, the people still believe of a hereafter, or the beyond where the soul goes after physical death. So, when they pray for the dead, they mean to say they are praying for the soul of the departed loved one.

This is quite right, even if they do not yet have the full understanding that we, from the New Revelation, have received the greater light.

One thing the Catholics need to improve, however, is to remember and pray for the dead anytime or all of the time, year round, and not just once a year, during their death anniversary!

For if they strictly pray for the dead only during their death anniversary, chances are they also remember them only once a year!

Question: Do you, assuming you are a departed soul, feel happy if you are remembered only once a year?

Our answer: We want to be remembered every minute!... and, if necessary, prayed for every minute!

See?

Re: Praying for the dead

by Ogee Thu, 1 Dec 11 at 10:32 CET

Dear Cocoy and Stella,
Great response from my brother, but what i wanted to understand from Stella is why do they pray for the dead. Maybe it's not what me and Cocoy are thinking. Here in Africa we have a situation whereby people end up obeying the dead and taking commands from the dead, sometimes even prepare ancestral rituals. Something totally against God's holy will. Imagine obeying someone whom you know was a drunkard, a killer, a fornicator?
Why do Catholics pray for the dead?

Re: Praying for the dead

by cocoy777 Fri, 16 Dec 11 at 3:30 CET

That's seriously dangerous brother Ogee! Certainly, that is a kind of prayer that should be avoided for souls which were formerly bad examples while still on earth.

Here in the Philippines, the Catholic prays for the dead for two reasons or purposes: 1) for these departed souls' salvation or progression towards perfection or towards God; 2) to ask help or guidance from these departed souls.

Here in Catholic Philippines, it's not that we let our dead control us, but merely to ask for guidance or loving help. This is done in the context that one who died and whose soul we are calling for help was our LOVED ONE. So, the prayer, or more correctly, the call for help is in the context of love. There is no intention to get controlled by an evil soul. Free will is still recognized.

The New Revelation speaks about our departed beloved relative possibly to become our sort of guardian angel once they are in the beyond. They can choose to guard us, to guide us, out of LOVE. So, even though the two-way communication and sight is now cut, (we cannot anymore see them or hear them), the LOVE affair can still continue, e.g., they can help us, though unseen, and in return, we can help them by praying for them. Thus, mutual love continues, though mutual communication through eyes and ears are no longer possible.

On the other hand, and this is the second purpose of our prayer for the dead, we pray for the dead, especially during his annual death anniversary our of loving remembrance, for his salvation, e.g., that should he be now in purgatory, may he progress towards heaven.

This is in line with what the New Revelation thru Lorber, if my readings did not fail me. Our Lord said that our love prayer has an effect, e.g., it can even serve as light-guide to help the soul who is in darkness in the beyond. It has power to help our loved ones' soul progress, or move forward or even escape the darkness beyond.

When I read that in the NR, I was happy. So, I waited not for the annual death anniversary to arrive; I just pray anytime of the year whenever I remember or my heart remembers my loved ones. Love does not wait for the once-a-year death anniversary.

Stell asks:

'I need to know whether we can pray for the dead.'

As far as I can recall my reading from the NR, the answer is: Yes, we can pray for the dead, but not for their dead body, but for the souls who have departed and are now beyond. And secondly, we can "pray," that is, actually talk to them in a usual way, not as worshipers, but as their loved ones left on earth to ask their support, such as advice, or whatever way they are empowered by the Lord to do for us.

"Catholics do, so is it mentioned in the bible that allows or disallows praying for our dearly departed?"

My answer: The Bible is mute about that. Or at best, very blurred because most non-Catholic Christian churches taught us that the only hope for salvation does not exist beyond, that is, that salvation is only here, and that once you have passed the great divide (the boundary between this life and the otherside life), it would be too late. So, the churches reason, what's the use of praying for the departed souls?

However, we are very blessed to know through the direct Word from our Lord and Father that: salvation continues after our physical death.

... and because of that, we, who are still alive here on earth, can pray for our departed loved ones or simply talk to them.

I may have less complete understanding in this subject. Our other brothers who are more well-versed of the NR may have more clarification to give.

God bless you all.

Yours truly,

Cocoy777

P.S. In 1 Cor 15, there is mentioned "baptism for the dead", but, as far as I can recall, there is no mention in the Bible for "prayer for the dead".

Re: Praying for the dead

by cocoy777 Fri, 16 Dec 11 at 3:34 CET

So, we have touched a topic where Catholicism is more correct than the Protestant churches.

Although, we have been pre-occupied by our criticisms and faultfinding against our mother church, yet, here, she deserves our praise!

So, let's appreciate the good, and reject the bad... without forgetting to do everything in love with gratitude.

Amen.

Re: Praying for the dead

by Ogee Fri, 16 Dec 11 at 9:04 CET

Greeting in Jesus name brother Cocoy and beloved sisters and brothers out there!
Brother Cocoy, on this topic you stated two reasons or purposes on praying for the dead, but, I understand and prefer the first one because it shows neighborly love. The second one, I think it's too risky in the sense that;
GOD IS LOVE, God as being the PERFECT and PURE spirit from eternity to eternity, why not ask guidance or help from HIM?He created spirits and He knows progress of every single spirit and soul, on the beyond and still on earthly garment. The New Revelation texts tells us that every human being has a guardian angel. He "serves" whenever the person acts in line with the commandments of God. If not, he withdraws.
Like you said "free will is still recognized". We all know about God's commandments but still disregard them. In the New Bible God says we should strive for perfection. Angels are spiritual beings at the service of the Lord, they can never do anything without Lord's authority. If we ask for help or guidance from God, He sends angels(pure spirits) not impure spirits or souls.
So brethren, what I'm basically saying is, are you certain the spirit or soul you are asking help or guidance from is pure? Why not ask from Our Heavenly Father Himself and pray for the lost souls on the beyond to achieve perfection as soon as possible.NR books reveal that some of these souls take thousands and thousands of years for them to become perfect.
NR books are true words from His mouth, Him who created us!
Thanking you
Ogee

Re: Praying for the dead

by Ogee Fri, 16 Dec 11 at 9:23 CET

One Verse from the New Bible Chapter 2 says;
4.For your works are in vain if they are not done by lifting your eyes up to ME, THE LORD. Where is your supplication, your scrutinizing question put to ME, THE LORD: "FATHER, what is YOUR ALONE HOLY WILL?"

Re: Praying for the dead

by cocoy777 Fri, 17 Feb 12 at 7:50 CET

What more can I say, brother Ogee?

You've perfectly said it crystal clear.

Thanks.

In Jesus love,

Cocoy